any ideas peeps

Propping up a corrupt government

: ]

D

helping Cocky make his millions

Very good friend of mine is in the Marines and came back from his first tour in Afghanistan a few months back. The stories he tells are On his first actual patrol, the lad he had trained with from the first day he joined the marines lost both legs in a IED explosion that my mate was seriously lucky not to get caught in. He'd been shot at by Taliban and Afghan police and army that the Marines were helping to train.

It's a total fuckin mess. Double standards and dual motives run rife. Many of the top brass in the new Afghan police and army have extensive fingers in the opium trade pie and they're then being expected to actually clamp down on those making a living from the trade The idea of trying to hold so-called democratic elections has been royally shown up by the Karzai farce, with endemic corruption on all sides being seen. You only have to look at the relatively recent history of the country (ie. last 30 years) to see that the country is riven by ethnic divisions that wont ever go away. Yes, they were drawn together to fight the Soviets but then fell into squabling over who would take charge after the Soviet patsies were deposed. Then came the Taliban, bringing again a semblance of unity in those who opposed them and became the Northern Alliance, but since then everyone's just gone back to their essentially original positions, drawn down ethnic lines, and that isn't going to change.

My mate is actually moving into the intelligence side of things as we speak, learning Pashto and all that. He loves the job though and is really serious about what he does. His missus wants him to get the fuck out of dodge for good, but he's itching to go back.

Haha. Strictly for those that know

Sweet Jesus

Are the marines going back into kirkby ?

Long overdue, la. They're expecting strong resistance.

don't know anyone in the forces, but to my mind it seems a pointless war incurring pointless deaths. i feel for the families and friends of the lost ones to date.

slightly off topic the Ross Kemp Afghanistan thing on sky was really good. much respect to him and his camermen for getting in amongst it on the front line.

I think a lot of people are thinking the same thing, even the soldiers over there doing the fighting.

It started in autumn 2001, I would say as a direct consequence of 9/11, and it has been going ever since. The original reasons given were to flush out the Taleban (who, to be fair were pretty nasty, to put it mildly) but all based around Bush's emerging War on Terror, which is by definition un-winable (and now untenable), with the aim of stopping it becoming an even worse, lawless, breeding and training ground for Islamic fundamentalists. If you listen to the generals on the ground we are no further forward in this aim really, as the Taleban still control nearly all the areas outside the main cities, and if anything they can't see it as a war that will ever be won - possibly only staunched with a massive surge of more troops. But, then what?

[In addition, poppy production, supplying about 80% of the worlds heroin is still as abundant as it ever was.]

It really is a sad state of affairs, men and women on both sides are still losing their lives day by day (troops and civilans) and all because it has become a fucking quagmire, with no-one at the top really knowing what to do next: i.e. surge and keep going, does it become another Vietnam? Then more loss of life, not to mention the obscene amount of money it is all costing - as they say, there's a huge price in blood and treasure. Or pull out and leave the country to implode and the Taleban to return to the main cities aswell to continue persecuting ordinary Afgans?

It's a disgrace, and I don't know what the answer is. All we know is that young British troops are losing their lives unnecessarily, a long way from home, for some political ideal the origins of which are which are half smeared and smudged with the passage of time. I'm sure someone thought they were doing right in the beginning... what is it they say about the road to hell being paved with good intentions?

And more, if you look back through history, this has all happened before! And none of it bodes well. The British once before in the Great Game at the end of the 19th Century but were eventually kicked out. The Russians had a go in the 70's and 80's (I think) during the cold war but finally gave up. The Afghan warriors are nothing if not fierce and dedicated fighters across a bleak and unremitting terrain. As someone remarked at the beginning of the bombing in 2001 - what are you going bomb, rubble?

It's a bloody mess, is what it is. And I just feel for the troops and their families.

Surely dialogue, political coertion, inducements etc should all have been given a try first. As Henry Allingham said, "War is stupid. Nobody wins." But the instigators wanted revenge, and that was that. Bloody humans.

yo, anyone got any clues

cheers

Heard some captain on 5live earlier who gave a good perspective.

The jist was, if we pull it now, it'll all be proper fucked. We've given normal afghan people hope that things will be stabalised so we're in for the long run.

If we pulled out, the taliban would stroll in, likely murder all the 86 women who have been involved in the government there to this point (and anyone who is connected to them), then turn their attention to the nuclear country of Pakistan - which could have catostrophic consequences.

Regardless of the views for why we got involved in the first place - the worst thing that could happen would be for the public to completely drop support and us pull out completely.

I don't think any of us know what is 'really' going on.

I don't think we have any alternative but to stay in AFG for the foreseeable future. Historically it is a nation that has been controlled by regional warlords and rival factions, not stable political regimes.

Neighbouring PAK is in turmoil right now, with the Taliban wreaking havoc in many of the major cities - probably a direct result of our presence in AFG. This is very dangerous given PAK's military capabilities.

You'd better get used to us being there, because it's not likely to change any time soon.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING IN MY WIFE'S WARDROBE?


seriously though, shouldnt we just get out, leave them to it and worry about our own shit?

"their shit" IS "our shit"

Indeed.

Plus we cant let the Taliban stop girls being educated, banning all music, etc...again.