Have you ever been to CERN, ART?

I think you would like it. Veryyyyyy geek heaven.

They have all sorts of cool toys. I partcularly like the machine where you can watch protons make smoke trails and stuff. (no i didn't listen to the explanation very well!)

I'm gonna repeat myself cos I'm curious to find out: does anyone remember DJ Physics, early 90's breakbeat DJ?

Cardiac's evil invisible overweight twin.

ART, you can come out of your bunker now, the all clear has sounded...

yeah, in another dimension.

plus ART's turned into a massive streak of a light wave.

Full PHOTON respect.

this will be my bunker and I don't want to come out

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

Quality thread. Now someone has remembered to put the plug back in the wall at the LHC, I'm smacking my lips in anticipation. I hope some answers, re: dark matter and energy are forthcoming.

What I still can't get my head around, after years of pondering this, is the sheer immensity of space, time and the universe. If you don't get dizzy thinking about it the you are not even beginning to really imagine the sizes and numbers involved.

Just think: on a scale of one mile to one light year (imagine drawing this on a piece of paper), the orbit of the Earth round the Sun is a circle 2 in in diameter; the sun (800,000 miles across) is a very fine pencil dot in the centre; the nearest star is another very fine pencil dot 4.5 miles away, so on the other side of central London, say, on your enormous piece of paper; the approximately 100,000,000,000 other stars in our galaxy are also fine pencil dots contained in a disc, on that scale, 100,000 miles across (this is now a disc of paper stretching half way to the moon). And then there are the other approximately 100,000,000,000 other galaxies in our universe, each containing similarly vast numbers of stars, not to mention planets.

It only takes one to be in the "goldilocks" zone from a sun-like star, i.e. not too hot and not too cold, so the water is not burned off or frozen solid. Throw in an elliptical orbit, a pinch of moon(s) or a tilt of the axis to generate seasons, leave to simmer for a few billion years and you are there.

It is almost certain that there is life out there, somewhere, even if it is not sentient and is just bacteria. There is possibly a hundred billion earth like planets just in our galaxy, then multiply that by the other thousand billion galaxies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7891132.stm

Phew: I'm going for a substantial lunch, I feel giddy.

Matt.

Yeah but what are the chances of that happening? Probably more chance of winning the lottery and then the Yeti mugging you for the ticket...

Not necessarily. To quote myself, "there are possibly a hundred billion earth like planets just in our galaxy, then multiply that by the other thousand billion galaxies". I've not just made that up, this has been calculated from observable evidence.

The Drake equation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation) is a very logical approach to estimating the abundance of life in the universe. The sun is a very common type of star (small, dim, invariant output, and long lived), planets are the rule, not exception, and planets occupying 'goldilocks' orbits are assuredly abundant throughout this galaxy and the universe. So the probability of ET life forms existing within the milky way, at some point, is virtually 100%, and it is nearly 100% that life forms do, or did, exist on other bodies within our own solar system.

The probability of intelligent life forms existing, as in technologically capable of communicating with us, is admittedly, very small. The chances of it having existed elsewhere at any time during the lifetime of our solar system is also very small. Our ability to calculate the probability of full, intelligent life existing anywhere else in our galaxy, to a very good degree of accuracy, is also quite low, but not impossible. But, even if it does exist now, the chances of it making contact are tiny, unless they do it with some communication method which is as yet unknown to us.

So. Even with a low, and note that means NON ZERO, probability of a goldilocks exoplanet with oxygen signatures existing, by the time you multiply that by a hundred billion (10^11), there is a chance that at least 1 or 2 civilisations have existed at some point, in our galaxy. And then multiple that by the thousand billion galaxies that exist (10^12) and there is a very good chance that there are sentient beings out there somewhere right now but completely uncontactable.

From Restaurant at the end of the Universe (3rd hitch hikers book)

"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

hmmm

Interesting points to consider matt - Respect! I know very little about astronomy/cosmology but find it fascinating.

When you say "at some point" that is a bit vague when you consider the time window we're talking about. The entire lifespan of our dear planet is but a tiny dot on a timeline that is so vast that we can't really comprehend it.

We've had some lovely clear nights up here in Leeds recently and I was gazing up at the stars just the other evening and thought we're probably alone. It makes you feel pretty insignificant when you try and consider the vastness of the universe.


Tune for you....

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I love threads like this.

Bring on the cosmos.

Yes and no - according to the latest estimations, scientists believe the earth is about 4.5 billions years old - and the universe about 14 billions years old, when the big bang took place

So yes these are figures impossible to comprehend on a human scale. but on the other hand our planet earth is not that young if compared to the universe

Imagine the earth is a young 20 year old and theuniverse a 60 year old - roughly

I do mean, quite literally, at any point since the big bang and that is a very long time indeed, especially in human terms. You are right, our 'three score and ten' lifespan is essentially inconsequential from this perspective.

Agreed. Hence my remark about dizziness. We live on a vitally important, yet cosmically insignificant, planet. I do think that life, even intelligent life, is out there I just don't that think we will ever bridge the vast distances to be able to communicate, well not with classic comms anyway. Perhaps ESP?

My sense is that there is a lot more, unseen, going on, which is only just being described by string theory and the extra 7 dimensions etc. Going down that road it's not impossible that "energy" exists in other dimensions that we might be able to communicate with. So: dismiss discouragement. Although an idea might sound crazy, every great achievement was once impossible.

Thanks for the track btw. Funnily enough (I know mentioned it before) I studied physics at Leeds in the early 90's. How is the old gaff? I haven't been back since a reunion in 1997 to see that local funk group Capri down at the Undergound Club - amazing live performers, especially the drummer. Brilliant. Is any of that still going?

My lecturer for high energy physics, Prof. Alan Watson, is now a legend in the field and is a Fellow of the Royal Society and a Fellow of the Institute of Physics and of the Royal Astronomical Society, and a really lovely bloke, who spends half the year at the South Pole measuring cosmic rays. Dig out his work if you're interested, or I can PM you some links/books etc, as I'm sure the rest of Brownswood are not really interested in all this in such detail - sorry guys! Enough now. Over and out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7085442.stm